We realize that many of our website visitors aren’t contractors, they are the clients of a contractor. They are generally either looking for help with their Cost Plus project that’s gone wrong, or they’re trying to figure out if the price they were quoted (or charged) is reasonable.How Much Should A Contractor Charge?

They frequently confuse Markup with Profit, and we want to set the record straight. Markup isn’t profit.

Markup is a general term that applies to the overhead and profit that any business needs to realize if the business wants to stay in business. It is the amount a business charges above their direct cost.

If your contractor has a 1.50 markup (which is reasonable for a remodeling contractor), that means that if the estimated cost for a job is $10,000, they’ll multiply the $10,000 x 1.50 and arrive at a $15,000 sales price.

Now many people who know little about business and even less about the costs of running a business will say, “Oh, look at that crook. He is making $5,000 profit on my job.” Nope, not true.

Your contractor gets $5,000 to pay their overhead expenses (which includes salary) and make a reasonable profit. I just heard those same people say, “But wait, contractors don’t have any overhead!”

Guess again. They have overhead. Advertising, sales commission, job supervision (which isn’t usually a job cost), office expenses (even if they work out of their home), insurance, accounting and legal fees, licenses, taxes, employee expenses, and their own salary are just a few of their overhead expenses. The typical remodeling contractor will have overhead expenses ranging from 25% to 54% of their revenue – that means every $15,000 job could have overhead expenses of $3,750 to $8,100.

Somewhere along the line, people started believing that a 10% overhead and 10% profit is the industry standard for construction jobs. Or that a 20% markup is all a contractor needs. Armed with that knowledge, owners try to get their contractor to reduce the price of the job they want done.

If you think it through, it’s not a smart move. Would you ask your surgeon to reduce his price before doing open heart surgery? Would you ask your auto repair shop to reduce their price before rebuilding the engine on your car? Do you really want them to go cheap? For most homeowners, your home is your largest single investment. Why do you want to use a cut rate contractor to improve or repair your major investment?

Every business must make a profit or it will go away. It must price the work or services to include the cost of its goods or services as well as cover its overhead expenses and make a reasonable profit. It needs a reasonable profit to build and maintain the business, keeping it viable during the down times. Profit is what insures a business’s longevity – if it doesn’t make a profit, it might not be in business in six months. If it can’t cover overhead expenses and make a reasonable profit, it might not even be in business long enough to finish your project.

The National Association of Home Builders published a report a few years ago that stated that their “best” remodeling contractors averaged something under 4% net profit. I can tell you that in my experience, too many contractors make no profit at all. That’s why so many construction-related businesses fail.

So, if you’re focused on finding the cheapest contractor to do your job, you have a very good chance of selecting a contractor who will go out of business while trying to build your job.

There’s an old saying, “A fool and their money are soon parted.” Any owner who selects a contractor based on their price has no one but themselves to blame when things go sideways. Markup isn’t profit, it is the money needed to make sure the contractor can complete your job, pay his bills and if he’s doing things right, make a profit on the job as well. Just like your doctor, your mechanic, your grocer and every other business.

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Joe
Joe
October 26, 2020 11:52 am

What is the estimated cost of a job include? Does it include the cost of materials + labor to complete the job or other things?

Jabber
Jabber
October 16, 2020 9:21 pm

I have recently been scanned in 2 projects, the first time it’s happened to me ibn thre 30+ years that I’ve been in this trade. Im a general contractor, the first job was a sub contractor i hired to work with me in the site, managed to convince the homeowner to cut me out of the deal and give it ti him instead. Spoke to a lawyer, he advised me not ti gi after him but to file a lien in thre property, not knowing it came with an 8 grand bill. Second project, i was working with the homeowners… Read more »

A Robinson
A Robinson
October 15, 2020 11:16 am

We were having excessive sweating of our ductwork after a new HVAC system was installed last summer. I just had a HVAC/contractor add two supply vents, enlarge one return, replaced the duct going into the unit, and insulate the duct supply going out of the unit. He charged $5300 ($1800 for five hours of labor for two people and $3500 for supplies). When my usual contractor came to look at the work, he said that there was a maximum of $800 in materials. He talked to a friend who is an HVAC tech and he said it looked like a… Read more »

A Robinson
A Robinson
October 15, 2020 3:21 pm
Reply to  Michael Stone

1. I did agree to the price before the work started, but I never signed a contract. I went with him, because he was the brother of a good friend that I trusted. I spoke with my contractor and he thought it sounded high, but we thought the one of the ducts was actually going to be replaced that runs along the ceiling. He said that there was going to be a need for patchwork, but then there wasn’t any. I was under the assumption there was going to be a lot more materials needed. 2. My regular contractor specializes… Read more »

A Robinson
A Robinson
October 15, 2020 3:24 pm
Reply to  A Robinson

I’m not disputing that he didn’t do a good job. It looks like it’s well done. I just feel like I’ve been taken advantage of. Thanks for your help!

A Robinson
A Robinson
October 19, 2020 6:51 am
Reply to  Michael Stone

Thanks. I asked for an itemized invoice before the job started and he agreed to it. I still haven’t received it. I have that in a text conversation.

Dale
Dale
October 7, 2020 10:50 am

This past July, I signed into a contract with a contractor to build a front porch on our house. The contract (not an estimate but a signed contract) laid out all of the work that was to be done and a final cost of $20,000 with payment to be made in three installments (1st @ $7,000 prior to work / 2nd at $6,000 after completion of framing / 3rd at $7,000 upon completion of job). The project is not in the final stages (approximately 3 days of work left till complete) and the contractor has now demanded an increase in… Read more »

Dale
Dale
October 7, 2020 11:58 am
Reply to  Michael Stone

I totally understand what you are saying and that but I am trying to wrap my head around the number of $5,000 he is coming up with. He has stated that costs are up by 25%. If that is the case and he had a budget of $8,500 for materials, then the 25% would apply to that and be a cost difference of $2,125. When he says $5,000 is due to him because of the 25% increase, then to me that is a 25% increase on the entire project cost of $20,000 (so I am paying more for not only… Read more »

Jim Snow
Jim Snow
October 9, 2020 6:59 pm
Reply to  Dale

Since covid the material has doubled in price. I seen 2x4s go from 7 to 14 dollars in a matter of months. So yeah it is only fair to pay the expected rate for the labor and the material even if it got marked up. It wouldn’t be fair to expect him to pay for the material and not make anything.

Bill
Bill
September 8, 2020 1:29 pm

I know there’s a lot of stuff that goes in to it.. say a kitchen reno, material/labor included is about 20k. He charged 30k and makes 50% ‘profit’ .ok, fair enough.

Contractor does that same job, same material, but charges 50k.. thats 150% ‘profit’

Is that fair? Job already started, with some money handed out, how do you get yourself out of it without losing money?

Dean Baker
August 10, 2020 1:37 pm

I am a contractor that is trying to leap the next hurdle of growth. Frustrating to say the least. In need of assistance to understand the things needed to accomplish this. Looking for an advisor to answer specific questions.

Devon Stone
Devon Stone
August 10, 2020 2:28 pm
Reply to  Dean Baker

Dean – That’s what we’re here for. Check out our coaching services or look into our online classes. Feel free to call if you’d like, Michael’s in the office most mornings until noon (Pacific time).

General contractor
General contractor
July 15, 2020 12:39 pm

I am a GC and I hire or subs to do some of the work on a remodel job. Let’s use electrician as an example I hire an electrician to come in and rewire a house he gives me his estimate to do the work at what percentage do I mark it up before presenting it to the client?

Jesse Flowers
Jesse Flowers
August 19, 2020 9:07 am

I would say 15-25% depending on the price. I mean don’t get ridiculous. Some of your decision should be based on the rates of the electrician.

Matt LeMieux
Matt LeMieux
July 7, 2020 3:45 pm

I’m attempting to determine what the percentage of a project’s cost is actually outside of the labor and rough materials. For example, if GC is only responsible for labor and rough materials for a project, what percentage decrease could I expect to see in a project’s cost vs. a traditional project cost. Factors including, marketing, client coordination, permits and design consulting, finish materials delivered to the job site, all being covered by me would save the GC what percentage of the job cost? If a GC provides a quote for a $25k bathroom remodel what percentage of that would be… Read more »

Matt LeMieux
Matt LeMieux
July 9, 2020 10:42 am
Reply to  Michael Stone

Hi Michael,

My question is what would the cost of a project be if the GC did everything vs. the cost of the same project if I bought and delivered all the finishing materials, pulled the permits, managed the design to ensure it was fully thought out and confirmed ahead of time. Leaving just the labor portion plus including rough materials for the GC.

I read your article but I guess I’m wondering what it would cost a sub to complete an entire job vs. hiring them as the GC. Would it be a reduction of ~24-50%?

Thank you

jim Morrison
jim Morrison
August 26, 2020 3:37 pm
Reply to  Michael Stone

Micheal,
What I see a lot clients asking for on large projects is for the GC to operate under a management contract, where the owner/ builder is responsible for the permits and liability and they pull their own inurance coverage. They feel they are in more control of the costs and are willing to take the risk

On Deck Electric
June 29, 2020 6:50 pm

I think 4% net profit is not sustainable. The risks as a contractor are too large to make 4%.

Ultimate Energy Controls Inc
June 17, 2020 11:15 am

I couldn’t agree more! From the outside looking in the general public has no understanding of what it costs to run a business and what rates are required to make it sustainable.

Moses
Moses
May 29, 2020 10:20 am

But in the Bills of Quantities, there is a Preliminaries Section where overheads such a as insurance, transport, telephone, hoarding, testing etc are covered. Therefore the rates in the builder’s works should only include material cost, labor, plant and equipment and profit.

Kara Williams
Kara Williams
May 16, 2020 4:57 am

I’m working with a builder and he is charging me 11% OH and P. On the estimate spreadsheet it also shows I’m also paying 65k for the foreman(9 month project) as well as for his cellphone and all the “office” expenses. Is this correct?

Peter Coffman
April 28, 2020 9:20 pm

I loved the way you explained the overhead charges that a contractor has to pay to his workers and miscellaneous charges…

Lee-Ann Bibb
Lee-Ann Bibb
April 19, 2020 4:25 am

If I have already bought and paid for 100 percent of my materials at the cost of $100,000.00 how much should a contractor on average charge to do the build?

Keith Abrams
Keith Abrams
April 14, 2020 10:05 am

What if the contractor is charging a 10% mark up And an additional 30% profit To my let overall cost. plus all materials as well are included inTo my quote. Is this common?

MLM Improvements LLC
April 7, 2020 7:33 pm

Thanks for your valuable resources keep sharing the information like this…

alex smoulders
March 3, 2020 6:31 am

Hey Micheal, thanks for sharing here how much should a contractor charge for home renovation, Really informative and in spot on.

Jan
Jan
February 6, 2020 12:26 am

We are building a new house and we really trust our contractor. Prior to breaking ground we agreed to pay him an hourly wage plus 10% of time and materials. Recently in passing he mentioned it is 10%of time and expenses. There is a huge difference between time and expenses. It feels like a gouge to pay him 10% for things that are not material. What is the protocol?

Devon Stone
Devon Stone
February 6, 2020 3:08 pm
Reply to  Jan

Jan, it’s semantics. Time and material, and time and expenses, is the same thing. It’s normally called time and material, but the “material” is considered all expenses. Are you concerned that he’s gouging you? He’s not. New home construction usually requires at least a 1.26 markup, and he’s quoting you less than 1.10. You’ll be lucky if he doesn’t go out of business during the job because he can’t pay his own bills. Reread the article. We talk about remodeling, but new home builders are no different – they need to cover their overhead expenses and make a reasonable profit… Read more »

Jan
Jan
February 7, 2020 1:01 pm
Reply to  Devon Stone

Thank you for the reassurance. I come from a family of loggers and ranchers so I understand about overhead. We the home owner are paying for all expenses plus hourly wages plus what he calls his “profit” .. The only overhead he has is his own personal and company expenses like all businesses have. Paying for expenses because the contractor does not have the equipment is ok, but paying a profit charge on top of it it absurd and an insult to injury. He has been a builder for decades and is doing just fine.

Jan
Jan
February 7, 2020 1:15 pm
Reply to  Devon Stone

PS Perhaps to the receiving end of the deal, expense and material are the same thing but to the home owner they are different.

Amanda
February 11, 2020 9:55 pm
Reply to  Jan

Subcontractors would be considered under expenses, not materials. For example, should he supply the subcontractor for block masonry, plumbing, electrical, etc. then these would be considered expenses since typically the materials would be provided by that subcontractor. Your contractor is required to supply his expertise & knowledge, management for permits & inspection fees (also expenses), subcontractors (their time + material), materials + delivery fees, etc. Paying additional for time and expenses is exactly how it should be since these payments come out of your contractors pocket and are expected to reimbursed by you. Not to mention, 10% above the cost… Read more »

Benjamin Haberman
Benjamin Haberman
December 20, 2019 6:58 pm

Hello Michael- I have a landscaping business with a very high mark up currently (2.25). The overhead is intense in the landscaping business. There is a lot of equipment needed to build the work and the work needs to be built in a short amount of time (9 months). It’s a very hard business to figure out. My question for you is sometimes we have situations where we have the opportunity to subcontract the work(we dont sub a lot in this business). But when we apply the mark up to the sub contractor, the price looks HIGH. I understand the… Read more »

BB
BB
June 20, 2019 5:40 am

What is the industry standard % for a general contractor to build a custom home?

Devon Stone
Devon Stone
June 20, 2019 8:32 am
Reply to  BB

BB – There isn’t one. Every contractor needs to calculate his markup based on his business. https://www.markupandprofit

Matt Wolf
Matt Wolf
March 23, 2019 9:41 am

Fixed overhead should be level set against a typical work effort (ex. 40 hours a week).
Once you exceed that effort (work overtime), you have 100% covered your fixed cost, and your profit increases.
Effort can be measured in man hours, volume or gross revenue. The article does not mention this, and too closely ties fixed and variable markup costs. Imagine trying to be complete against someone that knows this when you don’t!

restreet
restreet
September 13, 2018 5:37 am

This discussion is about Cost of the Work contract where the Owner pays the actual costs and the Contractor adds a Fee which is either an agreed upon % of cost or a fixed Fee. The Fee is essentially the Contractor’s OH&P. In such a contract only the subs mark up materials but all the Owner sees is the cost of the winning sub bidder. Cost control for subs is provided by competitive bidding.

Biteityouscum
Biteityouscum
August 24, 2018 4:01 pm

It is really simple if you want good work today you have to find your unit cost as a contractor. Some new contractors start a little low and people reap the benefits. Eventually a contractor that has pride in his work and business will learn that they need to charge to stay in business. Architects, prime contractors and designers are all guilty of not considering california prevailing wages for a detailed project or complying with labor code 2810. I know this because every project I bid, I bid it according to these laws and a lower number is almost 99%… Read more »

Natalie
Natalie
August 22, 2018 1:27 pm

If my contractor gets 35% off sinks/toilets/medicine cabinets – how much should he be charging me? Should my price be retail even if he gets 35% off?

Michael Jacobson
Michael Jacobson
November 8, 2018 2:41 pm
Reply to  Natalie

At least retail. If you would rather give the money to a retailer than your contractor, you can purchase the materials on your own. I personally don’t know why you would rather pay more to some big retailer instead of the person you hired to do the work.

Ron Davies
Ron Davies
February 4, 2019 6:21 am
Reply to  Natalie

Retail or more. What about handling, delivery, research, etc.? Is your expectation that the contractor should receive nothing for this?

Heisenberg
Heisenberg
February 16, 2019 9:03 pm
Reply to  Natalie

He should be charging you retail, +tax, +10% at bare minimum.

Joshua Robertson
Joshua Robertson
February 25, 2019 2:31 pm
Reply to  Natalie

Yes when he adds sales tax the time spent figuring and getting the product you can expect to see around a 30% mark up on supplies and expenses

notmycupoftea
notmycupoftea
June 18, 2019 7:13 pm

You’re ridiculous. Shame on you.

bambalam
bambalam
June 18, 2019 9:38 pm
Reply to  notmycupoftea

LMBO it’s business plain and simple. Ridiculous is the mark up suppliers make that 3000$ refrigerator only cost Lowe’s 430$. And shame on you expecting some one to work and provide a service and deal with your issues and not get paid to do it.

notmycupoftea
notmycupoftea
June 19, 2019 8:33 am
Reply to  bambalam

haha. No, you seem to have everything backwards. You see a supplier marks up the costs because they are a…. supplier. They have to deal with risk of holding items, inventory, moment. You just buy the toilet seat, so difficult!

bambalam
bambalam
June 19, 2019 9:08 am
Reply to  notmycupoftea

As does the contractor who is responsible for the bill and getting it to job. Since you seem to know so much maybe you should try it out. I mean obviously I know nothing about the business ?.

notmycupoftea
notmycupoftea
June 19, 2019 9:24 am
Reply to  bambalam

Oh. you don’t think I’m a contractor because I don’t rip people off? Interesting. Delivery is easy, I just pass on the $50 deliver fee and let the supplier deliver it. (or sometimes free if it’s $3k-25k from the supplier. They save money, I’m not ripping them off.

KTF
KTF
July 17, 2019 4:34 pm
Reply to  notmycupoftea

You are the customer that watches over my shoulder, gets in the way, doesnt do what is required. For example, I’m a finish carpenter…when going into a house to rip out old trim and install new..I charge for me to move the furniture..some customers say theyll do it…you are the one who doesnt move it…or when you do…you move it 3 inches from the wall so you “can still have space to sit on your $8k couch…then complain that my compressor is too loud and my nail gun is interrupting your show. Or…the best one…the wall has a bow in… Read more »

notmycupoftea
notmycupoftea
July 17, 2019 7:13 pm
Reply to  KTF

You’re just applying bad experiences with customers and generalizing them onto me. That’s not an argument. And we’re not talking about moving furnature, take that up with them, I didn’t sign the contract.

But I think I see what’s going on here. Sounds like you’ve had a lot of bad customers and this is is why you justify taxing them 20% on trim you pick up from Home Depot? Shame.

ezekiel1111
ezekiel1111
July 2, 2019 10:48 pm
Reply to  notmycupoftea

If we buy the seat, than we own it. If you want our seat you will need to buy it… which makes us… your supplier. If its my toilet I can sell it for whatever you’ll pay. In fact, what if I drive to the store with my gas, use my time and money (loan=risk) to attain the fixture, use my vehicle to deliver it to your house (stores charge about $75 per delivery).. say I did all of this but I don’t get a discount on toilets? I would still be charging you a mark up to cover all… Read more »

notmycupoftea
notmycupoftea
July 9, 2019 3:25 pm
Reply to  ezekiel1111

“What happens if there are unforeseen circumstances and the job was way more complicated than it originally seemed… will you volunteer to pay the difference? or say, “tough, its your job to come up with a price”. Here’s one for you. Worker’s comp for a carpenter in MN is 23% of payroll. “

You’re convoluting the issue. A job being more complicated than you originally thought should have nothing to do with upcharging an item!

Eitherway, I hope you’re letting these poor bastards know that you’re charging them extra for an item!

Richard
Richard
December 11, 2019 5:53 pm
Reply to  ezekiel1111

Here here, you are very articulate.
Very well stated. I couldn’t agree more. It’s a tuff business. It’s a difficult thing to convey to a potential client /customer/pessimist, without insulting them.

Nathan M Cole
Nathan M Cole
February 24, 2020 9:43 pm
Reply to  ezekiel1111

This is so well put.

Ryan Terry
Ryan Terry
May 22, 2020 7:38 pm
Reply to  ezekiel1111

Anyone who is planning on hiring a contractor for their business/home remodeling should read this. Maybe their wouldn’t be so much sub par work being done by unqualified people for a cut rate price that makes us all look bad. Excellent explanation.

Copley Services
Copley Services
August 20, 2019 5:33 am
Reply to  bambalam

Agreed!!! If it were that easy you wouldn’t be looking for a contractor to get your fixtures. And for you who choose this, don’t complain when you call us to come fix it properly and have to charge more to undo your DIY quality work. Someone who spends there life establishing their self and business had spent countless hours running their business behind the scenes. That 35% goes twords the countless unpaid hours of work to get them that 35%. Nickel and dime the real trades men and have fun dealing with Home Depot and IKEA contractors.

Nicholas
Nicholas
July 17, 2018 9:42 pm

Should markup be charged for materials? Say that a contractor is purchasing windows and doors, should this have a markup?

Jeff Bower
Jeff Bower
July 18, 2018 2:44 pm
Reply to  Nicholas

Yes. If the contractor touched the material than yes there is likely a markup. This is why some people try to get their own material and just pay for labor. But, think about it, you’re asking the guy to order material for you or go to the store with his truck and take the time to shop and pick things up, that’s what you’re paying for. Auto dealerships make a killing off of this practice. I add 18 to 20% on all material and all labor for a subcontracted crew.

notmycupoftea
notmycupoftea
June 18, 2019 7:16 pm
Reply to  Jeff Bower

Hahaha most deliveries are less that $100, and sorry, but most contractors have no taste. Leave it to the home owners to buy the product and the contractors work!

bambalam
bambalam
June 19, 2019 9:10 am
Reply to  notmycupoftea

Deliveries are 200$ for 50 mile radius dumbass Lowe’s home Depot Ace that’s the going rate as it’s considered freight.

Jason Kindle
Jason Kindle
July 14, 2019 9:15 am
Reply to  bambalam

Most deliveries are between $20 and $70 depending on the deal you have with the supplier. And then $1 exttra per mile, and is sometimes free if you hit their price. So if you’re paying $200 for a 50 mile range that is very unusual.

Second. All you would have to do is just transfer that delivery cost on to the supply cost, but you would rather charge more than the actual cost of shipping. So if a costomer spends $5K on supplies you tax on 20% of that? That’s $1000!!! You’re crazy! SHAME ON YOU!

Bond Summers
Bond Summers
November 20, 2019 6:19 am
Reply to  Jason Kindle

In major municipalities of California, deliveries are typically $85 to $100. Some less, some more.

Jason Kindle
Jason Kindle
November 21, 2019 8:39 am
Reply to  Bond Summers

not from the big box stores. And again, if a homeowner is redoing their kitchen or bath and spending 5K-20K charging 20% $10k ($2000!) on the supplies for a 100$ deliver is criminal! Not to mention the contractor already should get %10 off with contractor discounts so that actually 30%!

Jon Forsberg
Jon Forsberg
December 14, 2019 1:51 pm
Reply to  Jason Kindle

Please tell me how a contractor gets 10% off from the big box stores? I am a contractor who is not ex military or a senor citizen and I pay the same as my customers. There is no contractors discount that I am aware of.

Jason Kindle
Jason Kindle
December 15, 2019 10:50 am
Reply to  Jon Forsberg

If you are contractor who purchases bulk items at Home Depot, Menards, Lowes, etc. they will discount up to 20%. You usually have to spend above $1500 for a 10% and above $5000 to get 20% off. Also there are the occasional promotional offers they send out for 10% off on any purchases. Just go to their pro desk and let them know.

So, yeah, for any contractor slapping a 30% upcharge on the sticker price. Shame on them.

Jason Kindle
Jason Kindle
December 15, 2019 11:03 am
Reply to  Jon Forsberg

And it doesn’t’ actually have to be bulk items, it can be anything.

Name
Name
July 13, 2019 5:13 pm
Reply to  notmycupoftea

I’m curious, notmycupoftea. Is there a specific reason you’re such a jerk, or are you referencing some actual situation? Because the way you are attacking the industry as a whole leads me to believe your opinions aren’t worth anything because you’re too biased.

Ron Davies
Ron Davies
February 4, 2019 6:22 am
Reply to  Nicholas

Yep. 15-20% markup should be applied. Markup is NOT profit. See https://www.markupandprofit.com/blog/how-much-should-contractor-charge

audnak
audnak
February 11, 2019 5:38 pm
Reply to  Ron Davies

What if I researched and purchased the materials on my own and had them delivered on site (I paid out of pocket for delivery)? My contractor did not have anything to do with the purchasing process or had to front any money upfront on materials, but he is still charging me 20% as O+P and says that’s industry standard. Please advise, thanks.

Ron Davies
Ron Davies
February 11, 2019 7:04 pm
Reply to  audnak

If the materials are supplied by you, and delivered to the site, then charging you an additional 20% is NOT any kind of industry standard, it is gouging. I would get another contractor. If he is gouging now, he will continue to be underhanded, and it will get worse. Also, he may try to hide that 20% somewhere else.

audnak
audnak
February 12, 2019 1:19 pm
Reply to  Ron Davies

Thanks. What if material was supplied by me, but picked up by the contractor? I purchased tiles and hardwood floors on my own, but had my contractors pick them up. Thanks again for your input.

Devon Stone
Devon Stone
February 12, 2019 5:35 pm
Reply to  audnak

Audnak – It sounds like you’re doing all you can to get this job done as cheaply as possible. Trust me, a 20% markup on materials that you provided isn’t gouging. When you supply materials, you take responsibility for those materials. Your contractor should not guarantee the install. If there is any problem with those materials, your contractor will charge you twice for the labor – once to install the bad materials, then tear them out and install the new materials. If, in 90 days, something goes wrong with those hardwood floors because you didn’t recognize the difference between low-cost… Read more »

Joshua Robertson
Joshua Robertson
February 25, 2019 3:10 pm
Reply to  audnak

Then expect to pay between 500 to 1000 $ aday in labor and other expenses depending upon where you are in the world with no warranty for material defects or problems due to material I.e. if the contractor can’t make money on materials and they aren’t his property or product then he or she or they have no contractual obligations to not be paid for his work or rework or scope of work changes and change orders usually start between 250$ and 500$ just to change plus material and labor. “Take no responsibility for anothers debt cause you may have… Read more »

Joshua Robertson
Joshua Robertson
February 25, 2019 2:57 pm
Reply to  Ron Davies

Actually a 30% markup is pretty standard across most business and platforms. When you’re labor cost is 8 to 40% for workers compensation insurance and your general liability is at 5 % plus the average labor in prevailing wage act comes to around 800 a week plus other expenses your contractors make some where between 3.2% and 12% profit above a pay check weekly so if your project cost around 100k then @ 7 % he will make 7000 and that will take him between 3 to 6 months to complete and he will struggle to stay in business at… Read more »

Matt Kuehn
Matt Kuehn
March 25, 2019 11:59 am
Reply to  Ron Davies

It is not gouging its people trying to short the contractor. He still needs the markup money to pay overhead.

So they either keep the markup or increase the labor rate to cover it.

ezekiel1111
ezekiel1111
July 2, 2019 10:59 pm
Reply to  audnak

He is only charging 20% on what he supplied. If you supplied it, it would not be on his bill and therefore not charged for… Unless you have the unimaginable scenario that he showed up, saw materials and demanded his 20% mark up…

Marshal Doss
Marshal Doss
January 2, 2020 2:18 am
Reply to  audnak

I would turn the job down. If i bid it with my mark up, and then you come to me saying you bought the materials. You just cut my bid and expect me to do the same job with usually more time for less money. Most customers buy less or inadequate materials than what is needed. Also if you buy the material you just voided your warranty with me.

Abel
Abel
July 6, 2018 3:56 pm

Other than problems with profit pricing work, what are other frustrations that contractors are facing in the industry?

hobiesmom
hobiesmom
May 4, 2018 11:15 am

So, is it normal and acceptable for a contractor to only charge markup on the estimated labor and materials in arriving at his price for a project, OR markup PLUS 20% O&P?

Jeff Bower
Jeff Bower
May 5, 2018 9:29 pm
Reply to  hobiesmom

They should add about 10% to each of those and that will give you the total cost, Remember that if you get a bid for 10k and the project required more material, the contractor pays for it. That’s the chance we take with bidding the job. Of course there are special circumstances, but some jobs pay better than others. Labor works the same way. One mistake can cost the contractor half a day for a crew of guys and who pays for it? The contractor is the top of the food chain AND the bottom of it at the same… Read more »

Devon Stone
Devon Stone
May 22, 2018 8:50 am
Reply to  hobiesmom

Markup should include all overhead and profit. As far as the “20% O&P” goes, there is no industry standard of 20% or 10%. We talk about that here: https://www.markupandprofit

hobiesmom
hobiesmom
May 22, 2018 9:41 am
Reply to  Devon Stone

Thank you. Our issue has resolved itself since I first posted this. We discovered that he was trying to charge an exorbitant markup (WAY more than 1.5%, more like 3%) AND 20% O&P on top of that. I don’t have a problem with anyone making a living, but fleecing someone is not a good way to do business.

snaffew
snaffew
September 22, 2018 10:17 am
Reply to  hobiesmom

If you have a contract for $10,000.00 and the contractor marks up materials 10 percent…how is this fleecing a customer? Say the materials are $4k and the contractor makes $400 off of the markup…that’s his money he doled out for the materials, his time to assess what materials to get, his time to pick out the materials, his gas and his vehicle to pick up the materials, etc. 1.5 percent on $4k is $60. Do you really expect someone to pick out, pick up, pay for and deliver all those materials for $60 and think that’s exorbitant? Perhaps you should… Read more »

mdme me
mdme me
February 1, 2019 4:23 pm
Reply to  hobiesmom

The 1.5 is not 1.5% it is 150%. 10,000 x 150% (or 1.5) = 15,000

Heisenberg
Heisenberg
February 16, 2019 9:10 pm
Reply to  hobiesmom

Perfect example of why I don’t get into these discussions with customers. The price is the price, how he arrived at that price is none of your business.

Bob Youngs
Bob Youngs
March 6, 2019 12:00 pm
Reply to  Heisenberg

A Heisenberg: Amen, and amen! The price calculations don’t matter to the client, as long as they feel they are getting what is acceptable and a good exchange for the value. If you get fleeced by the ‘contractor’ you are likely get fleeced by others in your life. That means you should act more prudently, and seek advice if you feel someone is legitimately charging far more than they should. In some cases it is possible the business person just sees too many potential problems, or it’s just a really bad ‘fit’ for their business and maybe they’re too bashful… Read more »

Jane Doe
Jane Doe
July 5, 2018 9:02 am
Reply to  Devon Stone

We had a contractor (not licensed – lost it) charge us $5,000 up front, materials and labor by the hour for himself and his helper, plus 15% P&O. There was a contract signed for a remodel, but we’ve reached the estimated price, and the work is only 65% complete. Does this sound right?

Dustin Cunningham
Dustin Cunningham
March 6, 2019 8:08 am
Reply to  Jane Doe

If this person has no license he is a handyman….not a contractor. You went cheap and you got what you paid for. Unfortunately this will be an expensive “I told you so” learning experience for you. In the state of California and unlicensed handyman can do no more than $499 worth of work for any one client during any one calendar year. Your desire to cheap out on your project has undercut all legitimate contractors….not to mention the harm done to the reputation of legitimate contractors every time you tell all your friend how you got screwed by a “contractor”.… Read more »

Bob Youngs
Bob Youngs
March 6, 2019 11:52 am

I couldn’t agree more there Dustin. I’ve called the California State Licensing Board to ask specifically on this one myself. Turns out the wording in the License Law & Reference Book is really specific, that if the non-licensed person does work (including all materials and overhead, etc) the person requires a license in California. In addition, they were clear to tell me that means if a project involves more than one person doing work on the project, it means the total of all work (with all materials, etc for the project entirely) cannot hit the $500 mark or they all… Read more »

Jeff Bower
Jeff Bower
April 22, 2018 7:01 am

This is a great article! I started a company only 3 months ago subcontracting Amish teams to build pole barns here in the Midwest and this author is spot on. The biggest thing most homeowners take for granted is they can pick up the phone and get multiple people to give them a job quote, yet for each phone call they make, behind the scenes you have just asked each company to invest from 1 hour up to multiple hours in your project. I have dozens of bids I’ve worked on that never come through. All of that took my… Read more »

Devon Stone
Devon Stone
May 22, 2018 8:52 am
Reply to  Jeff Bower

Jeff – You need enough to cover your overhead expenses and make a reasonable profit, and 15-20% won’t do it. You’ll discover that in a few more months; or you can read Markup & Profit, A Contractor’s Guide Revisited and learn how to calculate your markup so you won’t go broke. (https://shop-markupandprofi

Dustin Cunningham
Dustin Cunningham
July 6, 2018 9:50 pm
Reply to  Devon Stone

Saved my business! Best book ever….

Abel
Abel
July 6, 2018 3:57 pm
Reply to  Jeff Bower

Other than problems with profit pricing work. What are other frustrations that contractors are facing in the industry?

Ron Davies
Ron Davies
February 4, 2019 6:25 am
Reply to  Jeff Bower

Our market is short of contractors. We are considering charging $150 for the quote to pay for the resources consumed in quoting.

Tired_of_theBS
Tired_of_theBS
May 27, 2019 2:28 pm
Reply to  Jeff Bower

Except they are charging for the hours spent via labor charges, of which is higher than the costs of the labor. Contractors will try and tell you it’s due to the expenses beyond base pay. (Stuff that anyone who has an employee knows). However they will typically charge more than their cost even with the added costs of an employee. For example a $30 an hr employee doesnt cost the busi ess $50. It just doesnt. They will then use a markup on top of that, say 20%. Ok fine. The problem is they will then try to add “overhead”… Read more »

bambalam
bambalam
June 18, 2019 9:50 pm
Reply to  Tired_of_theBS

That all depends on the trade classification as workers comp is as much as 70% depending on the classification and let’s not forget the general liability which is 5 to 10% cost of safety equipment ect. That’s also not including providing health care insurance options for your employees or retirement.

Bond Summers
Bond Summers
October 23, 2019 8:59 pm
Reply to  Tired_of_theBS

Markup in many retail ‘markets’ is commonly 100% of the wholesale price, i.e. double the wholesale price,… which is slyly termed 50% markup, – i.e. the marked up difference is 50% of the retail price.

Iga Rudzinska
Iga Rudzinska
September 8, 2019 4:56 am
Reply to  Jeff Bower

I am trying to get an estimate over the phone, just to understand if I can afford the contractor, but they seem to prefer to spend their time to travel to my place instead of giving me an idea of the possible cost. I am not getting it.

Bond Summers
Bond Summers
October 23, 2019 8:54 pm
Reply to  Iga Rudzinska

Send them photos of your intended project along with the main details, over email to get a fair enough estimate.

GCGALORE
GCGALORE
November 15, 2019 10:40 am
Reply to  Iga Rudzinska

as simple as you think getting a quote may be over the phone, what ends up happening is that the contractor comes to take a look (after telling you a job is $50,000) and then in person sees the project at hand and tells you that its actually going to be $75,000. you will think you were lied to and shouldn’t trust the contractor. But, in reality what happened was that you aren’t a contractor and doesn’t know what is involved with the whole project and left out 10-20 major factors in the job that are not accounted for. If… Read more »

Betancourt Desmond Lillian
Betancourt Desmond Lillian
April 3, 2018 12:29 pm

How much is the price ranch for a chainlink fence 210 feet.My contract is charging us 7,500. Which we think he ripping us off.

Peter Hadley
Peter Hadley
April 19, 2018 4:12 pm

Thats really not bad. Paid $3200 for 88′ of vinyl 6′ tall fencing.

Ron Davies
Ron Davies
February 4, 2019 6:26 am

Wholesale rate on a hole with a post cemented into it is $100. You have 21 posts at $100 each COST. That’s $2100 for the posts alone. You got a good deal.

ghtyui33
ghtyui33
February 17, 2018 1:14 pm

I can’t help but read through these comments and get the sense that some contractors think that what they do is special or different than any other vocation. Auto mechanics charge an hourly rate and a markup on parts. Plumbers do the same. Electricians – the same. So for a GC to layer additional profit on top of all these others smacks of selfishness. Sure – GC’s have “overhead”, but so does every other business in the world. If you need to charge 150% to cover your overhead, you need to run a better business. As a customer, markups will… Read more »

Dustin Cunningham
Dustin Cunningham
February 23, 2018 2:51 pm
Reply to  ghtyui33

Where in this article did Michael state that a contractor needs to charge 150% markup? 1.5 is the multiplier…..that’s a 50% markup (100% of the job costs + 50%). And remember….that 50% includes all overhead, salary and profit. Believe me, by the end of any job, at 50%, you are still counting pennies and doing everything you can to keep costs on budget. By the way…GC’s do pay markups on everything else! The tile supplier isn’t selling tile at a loss…..the electrical sub is charging overhead and profit as well. As a GC I’m the last person on a job,… Read more »

Abel
Abel
July 6, 2018 3:58 pm

Other than problems with profit and pricing your work, what are other frustrations that contractors are facing in the industry?

Dustin Cunningham
Dustin Cunningham
July 6, 2018 9:48 pm
Reply to  Abel

Hi Abel, thank you for the question. I believe every contractor has similar and different frustrations. For me my frustrations have to do with the sometimes insane planning department and B&S codes that every project must adhere to. Mind you, I’m not talking about codes that relate to engineering, earthquake and fire safety. I deal with a lot of setback issues, neighborhood architectural reviews and other items that can make a contractor want to pull his/her hair out. There is a current problem that I think all contractors face that is a real pain in the posterior. Lately I have… Read more »

vickiepowell
vickiepowell
March 29, 2018 1:18 pm
Reply to  ghtyui33

The major cost items are fluid and intangible and you cannot quantify them online or anywhere else. I don’t know of ANY contractor making a lot of money off making off actual items/materials. They usually charge a flat mark up to help cover the administrative costs of accounting – reconciling and paying the bills, handling, gas, insurance, etc. The REAL way you are gouging contractors and injuring the industry is because the money has to come out of wages. Therefore you get illegal crews working under the table with no benefits and actual citizens out of work. Only someone who… Read more »

Dave
Dave
January 13, 2019 8:50 am
Reply to  ghtyui33

This is a valid point, on the other hand the contractor has to do his best to offer a price that is fair to himself as well. When bidding on a job there are so many things to consider. The fluctuation in material prices have to be considered. Unforseen issues have to be considered. You want to be fair out chances are you won’t get the job, but you also have to make sure you don’t lose money on the job and on those unforseen expenditures that almost always come up. It’s hard to be fair and competitive. If you… Read more »

Bond Summers
Bond Summers
October 23, 2019 9:04 pm
Reply to  ghtyui33

Markups take care of the accounting on items purchased/installed for the project. Plumbers and Electricians work on the same level, not differently as you indicate. But, case by case depending on the particular project circumstances.

John Doe
John Doe
February 17, 2018 10:07 am

Generally speaking, as a contractor for over 40 years, the construction contracting business is in huge trouble. It is more common than uncommon to speak to contractors in disputes with home owners and/or $ troubles.DIY TV has a lot to do with it IMO. Home owners eat that stuff up as if it were gospel and don’t realize so much is staged for TV and paid for by the programmer.Construction contractors have a particular set of skills that can only be developed with time, effort, training. Any one can swing a hammer or a paint brush but there is a… Read more »

vickiepowell
vickiepowell
March 29, 2018 1:20 pm
Reply to  John Doe

And a Contractor working in any particular area for any amount of time gets to know which Architects are hard to deal with, which types of Owners are going to constantly give him a headache. And in some cases, I have heard our estimators say “we just know too much about these types of projects” – in other words, they have done them over and over and KNOW what problems will arise and add contingencies for it. Also include regulatory fees – licenses and permits and training – which everyone seems to want their Contractor to have but NO ONE… Read more »

Abel
Abel
July 6, 2018 3:59 pm
Reply to  John Doe

Other than problems with making a profit and pricing your work, what are other frustrations that contractors are facing in the industry?

Dave Johns
Dave Johns
August 20, 2018 12:53 am
Reply to  Abel

Abel you ask the same question throughout this thread and have been answered every time, i am beginning to see your a slow learner and by now if you have not understood the replies then you need to relocate to a short bus facility where they can explain everything slower than the average Abel needs to under stand simple economics.

Kirk Hilles
Kirk Hilles
February 16, 2018 8:10 am

We have a house from 1972 and a small 5×7 bathroom we’ve wanted remodeled. I got all of the demo done, redid all of the wiring and purchased all of the tile and major components and then got “sticker shock” at a $6,500 quote to get it finished (plus a attic ladder install) which is likely 90% labor. I had troubles reconciling that especially when I’ve gotten a quote from a local guy to do both floor and tile for $1,700. BUT, I think I finally “get it”. People focus on the “markup” for hourly rates, markup for materials, etc,… Read more »

Jeremy
Jeremy
February 21, 2018 6:02 am
Reply to  Kirk Hilles

Kirk, you are on the right track. But you left no money to pay for business expenses. The only overhead you covered in this scenario is a fair salary for the contractor. Sure the materials got purchased, the labor was paid for and the contractor made his salary. I hope that contractor is insured, has a computer to type on, has a car or truck to drive to the jobsite, a website to get job leads, pictures of his fine work, etc, etc. You missed a bunch of his overhead costs. If he wants to grow his business, he might… Read more »

Matthew David
Matthew David
February 22, 2018 3:01 am
Reply to  Kirk Hilles

I’m not sure what people get paid to do there work but I’d have to say if you make just a paycheck for owning you’re company you will not last long. What does material have to do with labor? So if you had tile work done with tile you bought for .88 a sf you think the cantractor should charge less in labor? If you bought beautiful expensive tile he should keep his work lower than material? I don’t do that type of work I do customized concrete stamping color and hand faced stone work and I charge probably 6… Read more »

matt stoesz
matt stoesz
March 23, 2018 9:13 pm
Reply to  Matthew David

Ya, that formula works for me :
“I would never do my work less then what material and man labor cost times 2”
It seems to work out pretty good. I do high end metal roofing, zinc/copper curve roofs.
If its too expensive for you, someone else will do it for cheaper and I wont come back to fix it!
Cheers

Joshua Robertson
Joshua Robertson
February 25, 2019 3:56 pm
Reply to  Kirk Hilles

Yes you are pretty well on the contractor is making his money on his money like an investment or gambling seeing as all things man made are subject to fail and everyone else has to get their part as well the State the City the county the land fill the insurance company. The employees and the contractor. In reality a 5×7 bathroom can cost anywhere between 3500 to 9000 depending on materials, design, location, and local laws

ezekiel1111
ezekiel1111
July 2, 2019 11:26 pm
Reply to  Kirk Hilles

The average bathroom remodel with tile install, is $25k all in. Often homeowners will supply most finishings and contractor will only supply construction material and install other material. In this case the contractor’s portion would be around $15k. Sounds like there was no demo ($1200), you did electrical (correctly with dedicated 20 amp circuit?)($2500) Did you supply tile backer? is there accent of base tiles? is there a customer shower with floor pan? Drywall? HVAC (fart fan) Paint? Door? Trim? Windows? This is way more than two weeks worth of work but the way, and the big ticket item in… Read more »

Matt
Matt
January 26, 2018 6:31 am

I worked for a contractor who has no Employees and does not perform any work himself, he also has no Shop/office he is paying rent for, no tools etc. He basically just hires subtrades and checks on the job every other day.still he charges the client 70% mark up for subtrades.Basically my quote was just under 9000$ (Including labour and material) and charged the client 15000$ for my service! If he does that for every other subtrade like plumber, electrician, millworker, drywaller, framer, flooring guys etc.Simply means job cost would be 63000$ and his charge is 105000$.So thats 42000$ for… Read more »

vickiepowell
vickiepowell
March 29, 2018 1:26 pm
Reply to  Matt

Whatever he wants to charge is acceptable if the client hires him. It is a lot of hassle managing a project with schedules, materials, deliveries, subs, insurance, etc. If you don’t like his price, hire the other guy. You don’t get to dictate to people what they are willing to work for EXCEPT just don’t hire him. If he has contacts that allows him to bid work under other contractors who are self-performing then that’s his value.

notmycupoftea
notmycupoftea
July 17, 2019 7:22 pm
Reply to  vickiepowell

Which is why I hired the other guy

Philip Gamiddo
Philip Gamiddo
December 11, 2019 12:56 am
Reply to  Matt

If you dont like that get your own insurance and stop using his. I do high end work in Manhattan. Buildings where the monthly ammenity fees are 30k. I am required to carry a 20 million dollar policy just to be allowed in the building. If there is damage in the apartment my deductable is 15 grand. Do you think I just mark up the different trades and sip a martini while you all make me boat loads of cash? Theres some planning thats involved in the grand picture trades that need to come in before or after you. Tolerances… Read more »

Daniel Abraham
Daniel Abraham
December 30, 2017 1:51 pm

I need a bit of advice. I fully believe in fair pay for fair work, but our GC seems to be billing excessively. His hourly rate is $65, but he tacks 100% onto paid labour. So, with five guys doing the roof, and him on site, his revenue is $365 per hour, or $2920 per day. I get that there’s overhead, source deductions etc, but this 100% markup seems high to me. From reading these comments, 1.3 – 1.5 x seems more the industry standard. Does this seem off base to anyone?

Maxwell Rucker
Maxwell Rucker
January 3, 2018 3:52 pm
Reply to  Daniel Abraham

Hi Daniel, That seems excessive at 100% mark up. Did you sign a contract with him? If not you should revisit with him and come to a fair agreement. Also who is supplying and paying for materials? If he is supplying materials, does he mark these up too? If not, maybe the labor markup offsets not marking up the materials. We charge a flat 60% mark up on the base cost of materials and labor. Some of our items are allowances, these line items are allowances based on if the line item is a variable item such as counter tops,… Read more »

Daniel Abraham
Daniel Abraham
January 4, 2018 8:47 pm
Reply to  Maxwell Rucker

Thanks for the reply. His markup on materials is 10%. Unfortunately, we live in a remote area and there are no other alternatives, so we were sort of held over a barrel, so to speak. He refused to sign a contract at all, which in itself was a red flag. The math started to get a bit strange to us several months in when we sat down and, after wondering where our money went, added up totals for his wage, labour costs, materials etc. We broke it all down. He has billed us 177k for “labour” which is the gross… Read more »

ES
ES
June 6, 2018 10:57 am
Reply to  Maxwell Rucker

Do you share your 60% mark up in a schedule of values with your client with success or is this a fixed fee and they don’t know the 60% mark up?

Brandon Bogan
Brandon Bogan
December 18, 2017 6:48 pm

I would like to know why “Job supervision” is not usually a job cost. It seems to me like it should be.

Maxwell Rucker
Maxwell Rucker
January 3, 2018 3:57 pm
Reply to  Brandon Bogan

Job supervision is considered overhead as it is usually supplied through the contractor’s office. We pay our project managers from our mark up. They receive 10% of the total project contract which equates to about 26.6% of our total mark up. (Almost 1/4 of our mark up).

If you think about it, project supervision is as key of a role as the men doing the work. The supervisor/manager is the safety of the entire project. They ensure things are scheduled and work gets properly done in a timely manner and within local codes and construction practices.

Brandon Bogan
Brandon Bogan
January 3, 2018 4:29 pm
Reply to  Maxwell Rucker

Yes. All the more reason it should be a job cost? The way it was described to me was, overhead is the cost of being in business not doing business. My overhead consistes of costs I pay whether I’m working or not. My salary, insurance, office personel etc. If I am paying a person to manage a project shouldn’t those costs get charged to the customer and be subject to my typical margin?

Maxwell Rucker
Maxwell Rucker
January 3, 2018 4:33 pm
Reply to  Brandon Bogan

But a supervisor is considered an extension of your office… Is he/she not part of your personnel? Do you have weekly meetings with your supervisor? (If not, you should).

The contractor can break it down however he/she wants but at the end of the day, the supervisor is as much apart of the office staff as your estimator/salesman is.

This of course is just my opinion.

If you try to mark this line item up It’s like double dippin

Brandon Bogan
Brandon Bogan
January 3, 2018 4:40 pm
Reply to  Brandon Bogan

You pay your project managers 10% of your gross revenue? What’s your net then? If I have a 33% margin and give away 10% that leaves me with 23% to cover operating expenses. This would not leave me with much at the end of the year.

Carol Schelest
Carol Schelest
December 18, 2017 9:17 am

My husband’s company has it figured out how much money each employee has to earn to cover their overhead and make a profit. Let’s say that number is $500 per day per employee (hypothetically, of course). A customer has a job that will take 2 people one full day to do. The customer thinks the job is worth $800 but we have to charge $1,000 or turn the work down. Most times the customer can’t understand why no contractor will take the job for $800, which is fair to them. They end up having contractor after contractor blow them off… Read more »

Maxwell Rucker
Maxwell Rucker
January 3, 2018 3:59 pm
Reply to  Carol Schelest

I agree that smaller projects (less than $10,000) should have a higher mark up. It is simply economies of scale. Small projects cause the company to have to constantly start and stop which eats up time. Time is money.

Ashdotcom
Ashdotcom
October 12, 2017 9:13 pm

i am in the process of doing a commercial TI. I have already paid my contractor our agreed contract amount for his markup/overhead/profit/supervision up front (i know i screwed up). he has dragged the build out for four months when it was supposed to be done in one. he has cost me thousands due to his incompetence. he just sent me an invoice for his crew doing finish work on the store and included himself in the hours; paying himself 30 an hour. we never spoke of this/agreed to this and i already paid him a significant amount of money.… Read more »

Mark Hull
Mark Hull
September 3, 2017 10:59 pm

home owner here. I came across this site while researching how contractors come up with the quotes they do. Interesting. I frequently ask for a few quotes, for various projects on my home, but then get so disgusted with the prices that I do the work myself. Latest project was for re-tiling small shower stall. One contractor wanted $2500.00, where I provide the material, and I do the demo. He also would not handle re-install of shower door. I just did it myself. materials cost 700 dollars, and it took me 5 weeks, as I took my time and cut… Read more »

guy
guy
September 14, 2017 12:45 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

bro that’s a good price for tile labor. Leave that stuff to the pros. Gtfo

trixietimez
trixietimez
September 20, 2017 9:09 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

Contractors aren’t “greedy,” homeowners are cheap. They don’t realize until too late that their DIY of a bathroom will come back to haunt them when. How do you know what they’re paying their workers? You don’t. Licensed contractors MUST pay their employees + workmen’s comp + insurance + taxes. The cost of our employees is almost double what we pay them. A bathroom remodel can cost around $2,500.00 for a very basic job.

Mark Hull
Mark Hull
September 20, 2017 9:45 pm
Reply to  trixietimez

Hey trixy, 2500 to install 30 large tiles in a small shower stall is not reasonable. it just isnt. If I were to ask these contractors to do a re-model, jeez i’d probably be looking at 10K to 15K. I did the remodel myself. Yes I spent a lot of time doing it, but it was my first time. I am a detail nut. I spent hours making things as perfect as possible.(no contractor in the world would have spent as much time on every detail that I did.) If I made mistakes thats oK. I learned from them. I… Read more »

Mack Doggs
Mack Doggs
September 28, 2017 9:16 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

Most people don’t have as much free time as you.

trixietimez
trixietimez
November 27, 2017 6:35 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

It is reasonable. I am concerned that you literally glued the tiles in, and can only imagine how they look. Do you know how to use spacers? Did you refrain from stacking the tiles up, or did you do it row by row? Did you use a level? We stopped working with remodel clients because they thought watching HGTV meant that everything should be done in 2 weeks, for a ridiculously low price. $2,500. is not unreasonable for a tiled shower surround. The way we figure our own projects for ourselves is how much our time is worth an hour.… Read more »

paulchoate
paulchoate
January 29, 2018 8:57 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

My guess is he was charging you that price because he really didn’t want to work for you. This was his way of saying, “thanks but I’d really rather not work for you”. Just my 2 cents.

Mark Hull
Mark Hull
January 29, 2018 10:17 pm
Reply to  paulchoate

That was my instinct too. It indicates a crappy work ethic, and someone that should be avoided. I wrote a yelp review and they did reply for all to see, that yes they did not really want to do the work. They just want easy peasy jobs. That’s fine. Other yelpers made similar reviews as I did. I did have other contractors claim to be booked for months. Even one of the clowns on craigslist claiming he was all booked up. So I was forced to either pay exorbitant prices, do it myself, or hire some random guy in the… Read more »

Steven Michener
Steven Michener
February 8, 2018 7:09 am
Reply to  Mark Hull

Mark, maybe the fact that no one wanted to work with you is a sign that there is something off putting about your personality?

Carl Bowley
Carl Bowley
February 18, 2018 3:19 am
Reply to  Mark Hull

Did you know that when laying tile that standar is a minimum of 80% coverage of adhesive on the tile. That when laying them you need to make sure the air is removed from the groves. This is because tile itself, while hard, is brittle. Also inside a shower you can’t use mastic, you also can’t remix mortar. It weakens the polymers. There’s probably a lot you don’t know. How many of the tiles in your shower are cracked or have fallen off? There are plenty of people that have no issue buying a wooden dining table for 300 when… Read more »

Mack Doggs
Mack Doggs
September 28, 2017 9:14 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

3X markup is standard across the board. 2X is a hookup. 4X is greedy.

Just owning a truck that can transport equipment is a MASSIVE expense. Not to mention other forms of equipment and tools.

RonDijcks
RonDijcks
November 21, 2017 11:39 am
Reply to  Mack Doggs

Of course the customers should also “Pay” the overhead costs in pulling your travel trailer to the dirt too, right? This isn’t about how much a truck costs to own. Not all truck owners are contractors, and not all contractors maintain that expensive truck you are talking about. My point is, tools cost money, trucks cost money, regardless of whether they are being used for profit. And yes, the depreciation of the truck and tools, is typical and expected as part of the TAX DEDUCTIONS (generous miles depreciation that is offered by IRS), available to any contractor who is also… Read more »

Maxwell Rucker
Maxwell Rucker
January 3, 2018 4:13 pm
Reply to  Mack Doggs

2x, 3x, and 4x markup is for the 1%ers, the extremely wealthy that want extreme custom construction. Not the middle or even upper class.

John Brodt
John Brodt
November 3, 2017 1:43 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

That fact that it took you 5 weeks should answer your question. Unless time is of no value to you. Ha.

Stephen Jones
Stephen Jones
November 14, 2017 1:00 am
Reply to  Mark Hull

Hi there Mark. You spent 200 hours of your time to save yourself $2,500 on tiling. Congrats, you just paid yourself $12.50 an hour. As had already been pointed out, the supermajority of folks have neither the time nor aptitude to do these things themselves. My question is: why are you on an online messaging board thrashing tradesmen about it? If you want to invest enough time into something you could certainly “save” yourself the money of paying others to do something for you. Assuming you don’t see the folly in paying yourself a minimum wage to do so, when… Read more »

Mark Hull
Mark Hull
November 14, 2017 1:53 pm
Reply to  Stephen Jones

Hi there. Just to clarify, I did not intend to insult any trades people by commenting on here. I just came across this forum, while trying to discover some of the whys involved with why I always seem to encounter extremely high prices when trying to hire contractors. I would love to hire people to do various jobs, but when I feel I am being price gouged, I do tend to see if there are ways around that. I also like to know why. I guess that gets some people angry. Oh well. As for the comment that I saved… Read more »

T.K
T.K
December 18, 2017 9:12 am
Reply to  Mark Hull

HI MARK WHAT YOU SHOULD DO IS STOP CALLING CONTRACTORS AND DO THAT HARD WORK YOUR SELF IT TAKES A LOT OF OUR TIME AND THE OVER HEAD ALWAYS COME IN TO PLAY EVEN GAS TO COME TO YOU HAVE TO BE ADDED FOR IT IS NOT FREE YOUR MATERIALS COME UP TO 1500 WHAT YOU WANT TO PAY 1600 REALLY THATS JUST 100 LABOR MAKES THAT PER DAY MENY HOME OWNERS SHOULD DO WHAT YOU DID FIX IT YOUR SELF I CAN WORK ON CARS BUT NEVER HAVE TIME TO TAKE MY CAR APART BECAUSE I DO CONSTRUTION IF… Read more »

Rachel
Rachel
December 31, 2017 1:59 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

I highly suggest taking a business course or a course in economics. Overhead is expensive. This comes from someone who charges $135/hour for services only… guess what? My services technically cost me nothing. My overhead is very high, however, and the years of experience and professional training rate me in the middle range for pricing with high being in the $350/hour range.

Stop questioning what people charge and do the actual research to answer your question before assuming the world is out to rip you off.

Brandon Bogan
Brandon Bogan
January 3, 2018 4:58 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

And I’m sure it looks great

Mark Hull
Mark Hull
January 3, 2018 5:54 pm
Reply to  Brandon Bogan

It looks fantastic. Wish I could upload some pics.

Heisenberg
Heisenberg
February 16, 2019 9:42 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

Einstein, how much do you think it costs to build a movie theatre? To buy the land, survey, excavate, tie in water and electricity, pay taxes and permits, form concrete, build the walls, put up signs, put in the chairs, the projectors, the screens, the carpet, tile the bathrooms, put in toilets, lighting, electricity drywall, paint, and so on? Millions and millions and millions of dollars, that’s how much. Then they have their royalties to pay, taxes, employees, etc. I rarely see such woeful ignorance on display, even on the internet. Just stick to Ramen, cutting coupons, and driving your… Read more »

RonDijcks
RonDijcks
November 21, 2017 11:47 am
Reply to  Stephen Jones

I read your comment and his, and frankly, I feel that YOU are doing the “bashing”. HE took “FIVE WEEKS”. I hardly think he spent 200 hours JUST tiling his wet-area, but maybe he did it with a few hours of free time, in-between work and social life stuff? A typical shower tile job should take 2-3 days. Keep in mind also that this guy did try to gouge him, in that he was doing NO DEMO, NO MATERIALS, hence none of the actual “Work” involved except to slap the tile on a prepped job. Tiling is easy once the… Read more »

Mark Brand
Mark Brand
December 6, 2017 7:52 pm
Reply to  RonDijcks

MarkAlmost all people that I run across. Think because I come to them. That construction is cheap.It is not a good idea to allow yourself to get in a price war. All that is happening is someone is going to get the short end of the stick. My business is almost ruined because,I tried to help people. Now the projects are not finished. I can’t payout labor and all other costs. Because it does not matter when the company runs out of money. It’s not fair for us that we have to compete.For example could you imagine going to work… Read more »

Joshua Robertson
Joshua Robertson
February 25, 2019 5:09 pm
Reply to  RonDijcks

It takes 3 days for the pan of shower to dry if using mud bed if you use redguard it takes 72 hours to cure before setting tile and most Craftsman charge More to go behind some one

VB
VB
January 7, 2018 6:54 pm
Reply to  Stephen Jones

Amen

Ajushi
Ajushi
August 12, 2018 1:32 am
Reply to  Stephen Jones

Brilliant analogy
Tour de force, sir

Carol Schelest
Carol Schelest
December 19, 2017 3:28 am
Reply to  Mark Hull

Try doing it for a living. Charge your customers what you wanted to pay and take as much time as you did to do your own project. Now pay your insurance, taxes, and everything else. Did you have anything leftover to put food on your table? If you want to work so cheap I could easily take advantage, er, I mean, put you to work.

Mark Hull
Mark Hull
December 19, 2017 7:31 am
Reply to  Carol Schelest

DIY all the way for me. Contractors seem to just expect way too much money for jobs that people can either do themselves, or hire others to do. When contractors charge too much, their lunch gets eaten by DIY people or illegal aliens. When youre potential customer does the job himself because you qouted a sky high price, or he hires some illegal aliens, how much food do you get to put on youre table? Would it not be better to just offer reasonable prices? Or show a little transparency to help the customer understand how you arrived at the… Read more »

Carol Schelest
Carol Schelest
December 19, 2017 11:17 am
Reply to  Mark Hull

I personally don’t know the rates for tile. However, I do know that my husband’s framing company charges more than some of his competitors and less than others. His business has a great reputation for tough to handle designs (architects recommend us), many years of experience, and years of advanced training in construction. We don’t haggle, if you want to do it yourself, have at it. We currently have a waiting list of customers who don’t care that we’re not the cheapest. Our customers are willing to pay for the expertise we provide. We don’t price gouge but we don’t… Read more »

Maxwell Rucker
Maxwell Rucker
January 3, 2018 4:06 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

Some people are DIYer’s and there’s nothing wrong with that. Most people don’t have the time and or the knowledge to properly build, construct, or even more intrusive, remodel. Please tell me why a 50% or even 60% mark-up is too much? it may be too much for certain people with a smaller budget, that doesn’t mean the entire industry is too high. I say to those people, either GC the project yourself or don’t do the project at all. In the end, if you cannot afford a remodel or project then you shouldn’t even consider doing it. There is… Read more »

VB
VB
January 7, 2018 6:53 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

Not all. Thats not true

JTC
JTC
May 26, 2018 8:42 am
Reply to  Mark Hull

Just go away cheapskate.

Rachel
Rachel
December 31, 2017 1:54 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

Wait… so you’re saying $2500 for 5 weeks of work is high? 5 weeks at 5 days a week means we have 25 days… so $100/day for that kind of labor is high? I’m honestly pretty baffled at your logic here. How in the world do you expect these people to live?

Mark Hull
Mark Hull
January 1, 2018 1:36 am
Reply to  Rachel

$2500 for a day or 2 of labor involved in slapping on some tiles IS a bit much. If you were paying attention to the comments, you would understand that it took ME a lot longer to do than a pro that does this stuff day in and day out. The contractor was if hired only going to cut and apply tiles. I would do the demo, and prep work. Since I did it all myself, yes it took a lot of time, being the first time. The work I did extended far beyond the application of tiles, that I… Read more »

nunya
nunya
December 21, 2018 9:19 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

Wow, you are truly a sad desperate, GREEDY F@$k and chances that you “earned” your home is slim to none and I am betting you did not have to bust your ass to learn a trade and save up enough to buy a house!….. I am personally not a contractor, I am at the moment a “SLAVE” and understand the comment that ajushi made above far too well. I have been a commercial electrician for 17 years and I do not own a home, I am constantly struggling to stay afloat and am a single father. So I understand the… Read more »

Heisenberg
Heisenberg
February 16, 2019 9:34 pm
Reply to  nunya

Yep, that guy is a real moron. What we like to call a “problem customer.” When I meet someone like this who I know is going to be a real pain in the ass I instantly double, yes double, whatever my normal price would be. I send him the quote and hope he doesn’t call me back. Sadly they usually do. Great for my wallet, not so great for my stress.

Joshua Robertson
Joshua Robertson
February 25, 2019 4:52 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

Standard 3×3 shower 8 feet tall is 72 SQ feet for new construction and that’s just the walls at 25$ per SQ foot that’s 1800$plus the pan and floor which is around 1200$ so that’s 3000$ materials and labor to install in new construction and that’s for economy grade materials my general liability insurance is 5% which is 150$ of the 3000 so now we’re at 2850 my help makes 150 a day for 5 days 750 plus the 8% workers comp insurance which puts us at 810 for the help and puts the job at 2010 and we haven’t… Read more »

Ajushi
Ajushi
August 12, 2018 1:25 am
Reply to  Mark Hull

Sir , first my qualifications to offer an opinion: I am a master mason, I did 2 full apprenticeships in two separate areas of masonry and also attended International masonry institute full time for for 500 hours training. I have expertise in every masonry material except for terrazzo. I also did a small shower exactly like you are talking about a few weeks back. The demo was already done and the homeowner purchased and delivered the materials. The price you’ve mentioned of 2,500 is not unreasonable at all as of summer 2018. If anything, the contractor needs to charge a… Read more »

Heisenberg
Heisenberg
February 16, 2019 9:30 pm
Reply to  Mark Hull

Then go ahead and do it yourself. It really doesn’t matter what you think is fair or right, the price is the price you can take it or leave it.

notmycupoftea
notmycupoftea
June 18, 2019 7:25 pm
Reply to  Heisenberg

Actually it does matter because he has the money and decides who to do the job.

Lukman Hadi
Lukman Hadi
August 17, 2017 3:36 pm

How do i get this book ?
I live in indonesia, and my job is in a construction business.
In my country, regulation for overhead and profit was controlled by goverment which is not more than 15%.
So the construction company is not growth

Devon Stone
Devon Stone
August 30, 2017 10:33 am
Reply to  Lukman Hadi

Lukman, you can order the eBook format of our book at https://shop-markupandprofi…. If you don’t own an eBook reader, there is free software you can install on your computer to read it, see https://shop-markupandprofi…. You’ll see things in the book that can help you find workarounds.

Waylon Thornton
Waylon Thornton
June 23, 2017 1:55 pm

I have a question. Does does an employer have the right to take your tips and distribute them how he sees fit this is a fencing company just to be clear

Devon Stone
Devon Stone
August 30, 2017 10:36 am

Waylon, the tip is for all those working on the job, not just for one employee. So if an employee gets a tip, it should be given to the owner and distributed to all on the job. That’s our opinion – you’re working for the contractor, not the customer.

Kate
Kate
May 30, 2017 6:30 pm

Hi, I’m asking a question on behalf of my contractor husband, wondering if anyone has thoughts? He has found himself in a he-said-she-said with a company that is now refusing to pay him for work completed until he provides his subs’ invoice backups. We are concerned that she will try to nickel-and-dime his markups. He has also included overhead and profit in the original bid. Is there any legal basis for an owner of a private business project to request detailed invoices? She has since put a stop to all his work because of a misunderstanding between my husband and… Read more »

rené geneva
rené geneva
June 12, 2017 12:53 pm
Reply to  Kate

“Legal” is what is binding in your contract. If there’s a contractor’s law in your area that deals with that specific issue, you’ll have to consult an attorney in your AHJ. Based on my internet-lawyers creds, I believe it’s unlikely. She doesn’t have the right to withhold money based on wanting to see your numbers – unless it is in the contract. When you reread your contract, look for a policy that demands that living wage is paid to your subs. If that is what this is referring to, then you should be able to sign a waiver that states… Read more »

karinbritt
karinbritt
April 29, 2017 2:25 pm

Question: Is it common practice to add the profit % to the overhead? I thought for the most part the profit & overhead are added to the subtotal of the construction cost – separately?

Sara Karakas
Sara Karakas
April 27, 2017 9:01 am

This explains why most contractors are living in run down shoeboxes and driving beaters I guess. Just barely getting by, the poor things.

Mack Doggs
Mack Doggs
September 28, 2017 9:17 pm
Reply to  Sara Karakas

Well home is technically considered a crawl space. My truck is def a beater, but I love her still.

trixietimez
trixietimez
November 27, 2017 6:37 pm
Reply to  Sara Karakas

I know you’re being snarky, but most contractors pay everyone before themselves. The well-off guys have been doing it for decades. Most are barely scraping by because of cheap clients.

Scott
Scott
February 17, 2017 2:56 pm

Just to be clear…. a 1.5 markup for a remodeling contractor (as any long term successful remodeling company knows) is the absolute minimum markup that can keep a legitimate remodeling business around for the sustained long haul. I started my company 18 years ago. 1.5 was what I needed to markup everything when I was operating from home and working 70 hours per week. We now have an office location, competent office help so that I can work 40 hours per week and I can tell you that 1.5 is too low. We are at 1.67. I am very involved… Read more »

Heisenberg
Heisenberg
September 1, 2017 6:19 am
Reply to  Scott

Absolutely. NOTHING less than 2.0

paulchoate
paulchoate
January 29, 2018 9:00 pm
Reply to  Scott

Scott…Great comment. Thank you.

Joel Culley
Joel Culley
October 1, 2016 5:21 am

Hi Michael,

Im thinking of buying your book “Markup Profit A Contractors Guide Revisited”.
I live and run a design and build business in the uk, and im wondering if this book is relevant outside of the US?
Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks

Devon Stone
Devon Stone
October 3, 2016 2:04 pm
Reply to  Joel Culley

Joel, we’ve sold hundreds (thousands?) of the book outside the U.S., to over 30 different countries. The principles are the same for all construction companies, regardless of where you are located.

Tim L
Tim L
October 5, 2016 6:09 pm
Reply to  Joel Culley

Buy this book! I used to charge waaaay too little and if I hadn’t read this book, I would’ve been on the street in 6 months. 20% is a myth- the SMALLEST company operating out of their moms basement can’t even make those numbers work.

adam
adam
June 15, 2016 4:30 pm

Recently I made a connection with a local interior designer. She brought me to a kitchen remodel were I met the home owner. On the way to the front door the designer told me she had a cabinet maker in mind. She said he was great and really put a lot of attention to detail. I am a new contractor to the area and had only had one real remodel project since we arrived so I said, ok let’s see what your guy has for a price. Well, I made a good connection with the home owner and a week… Read more »

Rachel
Rachel
December 31, 2017 2:28 pm
Reply to  adam

Hi Adam, Hopefully I can help here. I am an interior designer and work on occasion with contractors in a similar capacity. So, first things first- the designer brought you the job. Therefore, that means the she has the right to any subs or materials IF she is legally able to GC herself. I am not a GC, so I turn it all over to the contractor, I don’t want to give more contracts to my client to deal with. That said, if she wants to bring in her own cabinet shop, she needs to handle that shop, not hand… Read more »

Ziggy
Ziggy
April 6, 2016 12:16 pm

From reading this article and the comments, I think mixing up of mark-up with overhead is the reason a lot of contractors barely make profit. Overhead is a cost; mark up isn’t. So proper cost-plus pricing should allocate the overhead into the cost of the service or material provided, and then have a markup on top of that which would then be profit. The more accurate pricing method for a service industry is the activity based costing (versus traditional) which would give you clearer picture of how much costs you are really incurring. An accountant can help with that (or… Read more »

Devon Stone
Devon Stone
April 6, 2016 2:09 pm
Reply to  Ziggy

You’re talking about cost plus pricing, a practice we discourage for a number of reasons. ABC is a fancy way of saying that you’re allocating overhead expenses to job costs. That’s great if you like to spend time doing math calculations for every job. It can also be dangerous if a client isn’t happy about seeing overhead expenses included in their job costs. That’s a risk with cost plus. Markup is the factor that you apply to your costs to cover your overhead and profit needs. Every contractor needs to calculate the correct markup for their business based on their… Read more »

Bond Summers
Bond Summers
October 25, 2016 6:10 am
Reply to  Devon Stone

Just to share, I’m a landscape contractor who does horticulture and small-tree-work, irrigation, and design-n-install, and time and materials pricing is what saved my business, and typically with a maximum total project price in the bid. That is, hourly pricing for me and my employees(with markup on employee hourly), and then x1.3 markup on plants, and x1.2 on all other purchases for the project such as ‘hard goods’, irrigation materials, mulch, rentals, landfill fees, hauling fees,….This is due to the very variable circumstances which come up in this realm of work, which is practically all ‘remodel’ work.What do you think… Read more »

Robert Ferreira
Robert Ferreira
May 5, 2016 7:28 am
Reply to  Ziggy

I just bid a project for a non profit that does million dollar renovations of historical buildings. I was only one our of 4 contractors that bid .building is in very bad shape. I took cost which was all subs and materials added my guys labor 2100 man hrs x 75 hr and gave me supervisor 6 months salary.Cost came out to 580000 and went 1.5 times came out to 870000 .They said I was over there budget. Not sure who figured there budget but they were wrong .

Ramiro
Ramiro
March 28, 2016 6:20 pm

I have a question. I am going to pour a concrete patio in back of the house for a couple. I can’t pull the concrete truck on their driveway, So I have to park it on the street. That makes it far for me to wheelbarrow the concrete to the pad. So here’s my question.
If I rent a small concrete pump to stretch a hose to the pad. Who ends up paying for the pump? Me or is it right to charge the home owner for it ? What do you think?

OldSoulPortal
OldSoulPortal
March 29, 2016 6:31 pm
Reply to  Ramiro

Charge them for it.

marn1186
marn1186
May 2, 2016 1:40 pm
Reply to  Michael Stone

Its not fair to the home owner to charge them for the pump cost if you didn’t include it in your price in the beginning. Now its a surprise cost as a result of poor planning in your estimate. Home owner may have hired the next guy who planned for it? Should you have to eat the cost? If it were my house, you can damn well bet I wouldn’t pay for your oversight after I accepted your bid. Its not like the pumping cost was “unforeseen”. …BUT in your defense…it sounds like a honest error in which you should… Read more »

anthony pagano
anthony pagano
May 23, 2016 2:11 pm
Reply to  Michael Stone

Hi michael,
i remodel kitchens and bathrooms. i recently got into more remodeling as opposed to retail in just selling cabinetry. i usally multiply my cost by 1.4…is this ok and fair or is it too cheap? lets say a job is costing $38,800.00 meaning all subs…what should a GC be marking that up?

Jerry
Jerry
July 11, 2016 3:01 pm
Reply to  Michael Stone

Ramiro, do as he says IF you want to start making money. Also, I would encourage you to attend his training classes as well, its the best money you’ll spend!

Joe Trott
Joe Trott
September 22, 2016 9:15 am
Reply to  Ramiro

Best thing to do is actually visit the jobsite before you quote a price. All construction work is “job specific” and no 2 jobs are the same. You should provide the pump and chalk it up as a lesson learned.

T.K
T.K
December 18, 2017 9:37 am
Reply to  Ramiro

I WOULD CHARGE THE HOME OWNER BECAUSE ITS NOT YOUR FAULT YOU HAVE TO RENT CONCRETE HOSE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DRIVE RIGHT UP TO WHERE YOU DOING THE WORK I WOLD TELL THEM ITS GONNA COST MORE FOR THE WORK YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOW THAT IN THE BEGINING SO REALLY IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN WITH THE REST OF THE COST

Melvina
Melvina
October 29, 2015 1:23 pm

I’m a bit confused by the proposal of my GC. He has both a “management fee” and then he also marked up the bids of the subs. To me, this feels like double dipping. In addition, for the “small” parts of the job, he is charging us cost and materials. This seems like a cost plus plus arrangement to me. I’d appreciate any comments on this arrangement as I either like to be put at ease about it or have the support to discuss with him further.

Bear's House
Bear's House
May 18, 2015 3:36 pm

First, I love my contractor AND I need some education. That said, we are just completing a major kitchen renovation (the first really BIG job he’s done for us after all these years). Note: On past jobs, he did the research, provided the materials and subcontractorsl. I paid HIM. On this renovation, however, I did all the research on what I wanted, found & paid for cabinets, counter tops, appliances, tiles, and all materials. He has the “stable” of great subcontractors (installers, tilers, electricians, plumbers who I have paid directly). He also gives me great advice and “baby sits” his… Read more »

OldSoulPortal
OldSoulPortal
March 29, 2016 6:33 pm
Reply to  Bear's House

Just toss him like $5 and be like “idk” *shrug*